I have been a loyal follower of you and Tater for 2 seasons now, it is obvious you have gone your own way and that is fine, I have supported your selections at the window and lost dearly. Both Madcapper and myself have pointed out flaws that we believe exist in your system and you are oblivious to them like you are to good to take advice from others. Not taking injuries or suspensions into acct when making an educated play is no more than guessing, the parts that your #'s were derived from are missing so how can they be good??? Good ex is your Denver play today for 4 units, I don't care if they cover , Anthony may be out and if he is your #'s are the game are bull **** regardless of the out come and should be a no play. If you are not big enough to see that I was trying to make valid solid points, I am sorry. And if you can't take me starting a thread posting your plays faded that is to bad! Like many investors I am supersticious and in case you did'nt notice you were not doing **** till I started doing this, prior to this 2 st wks of getting hammered and 1 +1 unit day, something was needed to change your luck and it is to bad that you are not big enough to see that my intentions were good and sincere
Cash.......
I have never.....repeat NEVER taken injuries into account. Not even last year. The books tend to over-react to them and I find that it evens out in the long run.
At this point though, it has gone beyond a conflict of wagering philosophy. It has become personal. I won't further discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of my system with you. I will say this though....if you think you can profit from fading them, I suggest you put up some money (no idea of your level, but I'm sure we can come to an agreement on an amount, terms & parameters). I'm sure Shrink would be glad to hold it. If you can make money fading my plays for a 4 week period or more, not only do you win the bet, but I will publicly apologize to you for having the audacity to ignore your advice.
In spite of what you think, Tater and I talk. We have not gone our separate ways. He was in Hawaii. We have had some agreed "biggies" lately and they have been hitting at a high clip. However we are not posting our agreed plays ar RX largely because of this nonsense with you.....so if you wanted to have an impact, there you go.
Fading me is one thing.....publicly stating that you are fading is fine too. Starting a thread and putting your name on it with no original thought whatsoever other than to target a poster and try to put him down is simply malicious. -AND- Then having done that, when it utterly FAILS, coming out and saying you were doing it to help me somehow is hypocritical to the point of being very funny. Tater asked you nicely to back off.....and you ignored that.....I have always treated you with respect and we can all see how you responded to that. So.....to what level do you want to take this ??
I actually bought into your story about doing this to be supportive until your "it's 6pm and I feel a big night coming" post. That was when you permanently lost my respect.
I will however, thank you for keeping this in the rubber room.....so maybe there is hope for you....I don't know....heaven knows you didn't accept my answers to your constant, repetitive and ultimately very annoying questions.
Sooooo....bottom line is this......go ahead and fade me if that works for you.....go ahead and post it up and down the internet.....that is your business, although I suspect it may be against the Rx rules.....or....put your money where your mouth is and let's just get this settled. But in all cases I am asking you to please keep your posts.....positive or negative....out of my threads......and again.....of course I will stay out of yours.
I have never.....repeat NEVER taken injuries into account. Not even last year. The books tend to over-react to them and I find that it evens out in the long run.
At this point though, it has gone beyond a conflict of wagering philosophy. It has become personal. I won't further discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of my system with you. I will say this though....if you think you can profit from fading them, I suggest you put up some money (no idea of your level, but I'm sure we can come to an agreement on an amount, terms & parameters). I'm sure Shrink would be glad to hold it. If you can make money fading my plays for a 4 week period or more, not only do you win the bet, but I will publicly apologize to you for having the audacity to ignore your advice.
In spite of what you think, Tater and I talk. We have not gone our separate ways. He was in Hawaii. We have had some agreed "biggies" lately and they have been hitting at a high clip. However we are not posting our agreed plays ar RX largely because of this nonsense with you.....so if you wanted to have an impact, there you go.
Fading me is one thing.....publicly stating that you are fading is fine too. Starting a thread and putting your name on it with no original thought whatsoever other than to target a poster and try to put him down is simply malicious. -AND- Then having done that, when it utterly FAILS, coming out and saying you were doing it to help me somehow is hypocritical to the point of being very funny. Tater asked you nicely to back off.....and you ignored that.....I have always treated you with respect and we can all see how you responded to that. So.....to what level do you want to take this ??
I actually bought into your story about doing this to be supportive until your "it's 6pm and I feel a big night coming" post. That was when you permanently lost my respect.
I will however, thank you for keeping this in the rubber room.....so maybe there is hope for you....I don't know....heaven knows you didn't accept my answers to your constant, repetitive and ultimately very annoying questions.
Sooooo....bottom line is this......go ahead and fade me if that works for you.....go ahead and post it up and down the internet.....that is your business, although I suspect it may be against the Rx rules.....or....put your money where your mouth is and let's just get this settled. But in all cases I am asking you to please keep your posts.....positive or negative....out of my threads......and again.....of course I will stay out of yours.
Zap: Your requset of me staying out of your threads is respected, I am sorry you feel the way you do, but there are many like myself who respected your selections and appreciated your efforts, but when I try to offer a suggestion regarding injuries and suspesions be taken into consideration and you act like I have no clue, that is when it became personal. I have followed the NBA very serious for 16 seasons and totals have always been where I have made $$ and I mean serious $$. For you to put plays out there for people to bet real $$ and system or no system, a key player missing should be a no play and certainly not a 4unit play-biggest play of the day. FYI I have been handed down a totals system for nba from an old NBA scout, he and I were very close and he tried it out for mathmatics for over 3 seasons before ever making a play, and you devise a sides system and are posting and playing them immediately even if for less very foolish and unfair to your followers. I wish you the best and am sorry how this turned out, I may be at fault on how I handled it and for that I apologize, however I stand firm on the fact that your system is flawed and will continue to be so untill you make some of the said changes and considerations. CASH
Cash:
First of all I appreciate that you are respecting my wishes to keep part of the discussion out of my picks threads......and I accept your apology for your part in things getting out of hand.
There are two points that I feel you are continuing to miss.....nut sure why because I keep repeating them....:
1) The sides formula is new and experimental. It works very well in the NFL, but it is brand new in the NBA. I was up front about that from the outset. I wanted to post the plays to have them tracked, but I never presented it as a "sure winner" or used any hype whatsoever....or even overtly encouraged people to make the plays. I still have a LOT of faith that come March it will have made some good money, but we are still in December.
2) As for injuries....two things.....one is (as I keep saying), the oddsmakers (in my opinion) tend to over-react to them and so they will even out over time as far as value goes.....and the other thing (perhaps more important) is that I post my plays the night before or early morning. Often someone is questionable and ends up playing. I had that happen twice already that I can think of.......but even aside from that, I don't think you will argue that on the sides, the lines have mostly moved WITH my plays.....I'd say close to 65% of the time without exaggeration. Posting early often precludes the abiliity to take injuries into account....and if one does occur, I still contend that it will even out in the long run.
I also purposely made it very clear that my calculated numbers do NOT take injuries into account. I am trying to be consistent in how I apply things. There is no reason for you (or anyone else) to not make whatever adjustments you see fit if you have info on injuries, etc. The numbers themselves, however, I will contend that they will represent an increasingly accurate picture of the relative "power rankings" (for lack of a better term) of the two teams playing, so they should be a useful capping tool once things settle in a bit more.
Ok....back to the tv for me now.............!!
First of all I appreciate that you are respecting my wishes to keep part of the discussion out of my picks threads......and I accept your apology for your part in things getting out of hand.
There are two points that I feel you are continuing to miss.....nut sure why because I keep repeating them....:
1) The sides formula is new and experimental. It works very well in the NFL, but it is brand new in the NBA. I was up front about that from the outset. I wanted to post the plays to have them tracked, but I never presented it as a "sure winner" or used any hype whatsoever....or even overtly encouraged people to make the plays. I still have a LOT of faith that come March it will have made some good money, but we are still in December.
2) As for injuries....two things.....one is (as I keep saying), the oddsmakers (in my opinion) tend to over-react to them and so they will even out over time as far as value goes.....and the other thing (perhaps more important) is that I post my plays the night before or early morning. Often someone is questionable and ends up playing. I had that happen twice already that I can think of.......but even aside from that, I don't think you will argue that on the sides, the lines have mostly moved WITH my plays.....I'd say close to 65% of the time without exaggeration. Posting early often precludes the abiliity to take injuries into account....and if one does occur, I still contend that it will even out in the long run.
I also purposely made it very clear that my calculated numbers do NOT take injuries into account. I am trying to be consistent in how I apply things. There is no reason for you (or anyone else) to not make whatever adjustments you see fit if you have info on injuries, etc. The numbers themselves, however, I will contend that they will represent an increasingly accurate picture of the relative "power rankings" (for lack of a better term) of the two teams playing, so they should be a useful capping tool once things settle in a bit more.
Ok....back to the tv for me now.............!!
Props to everyone,,,, I feel a HUG coming on,,, hahha,,,Maybe Prosides and I can make amends,,,, haha I doubt it,,,,
I appreciate your effort cash, to Zaps defense he defiantely didnt promise anything,,, However,,, I did,,,, so in actuality its really me that will have more to answer to if I dont come through,,,, I predicted 20-40 units profit by the end of the season,,, who knows,,, we will see,,, I feel confident,,,
anyway,,, Zap and I have had a half dozen Totals plays,,, and the same on sides behind the scenes,,,, we both are trying to craft different angles with capping right now,, (We always have our totals formulas to fall back on) but in all honesty weve been holding them mostly behind the scenes, trying to not be targets,,,,
anyway,,, props to all,,, were all here for 1 thing and thats to make$$$$ the best way to that is to work together,,,
Im going to drink a beer and Mediatate for my round tomorrow at the BOULDERS!!!! hahahahaha,,,,
maybe I can break 90!!!
Tater
I appreciate your effort cash, to Zaps defense he defiantely didnt promise anything,,, However,,, I did,,,, so in actuality its really me that will have more to answer to if I dont come through,,,, I predicted 20-40 units profit by the end of the season,,, who knows,,, we will see,,, I feel confident,,,
anyway,,, Zap and I have had a half dozen Totals plays,,, and the same on sides behind the scenes,,,, we both are trying to craft different angles with capping right now,, (We always have our totals formulas to fall back on) but in all honesty weve been holding them mostly behind the scenes, trying to not be targets,,,,
anyway,,, props to all,,, were all here for 1 thing and thats to make$$$$ the best way to that is to work together,,,
Im going to drink a beer and Mediatate for my round tomorrow at the BOULDERS!!!! hahahahaha,,,,
maybe I can break 90!!!
Tater
CFM.........
Ok.....having thought about it, I'd like to address the injury thing. I feel like the 6-1 night with the injury game being the only loss was some sort of message.....and it probably is NOT good to ignore messages (even though women seem to ignore mine all the time).....and this was a very clear & blatent message !!
Sooo.....here is how it lays out. I get MAJOR advantage by using overnight lines whenever available and I really don't want to give that up. Usually injury games won't have overnight lines, but that isn't 100%. Some of the missing games are just because teams played late games the night before, etc. And some of the games that have lines also have newly injured players.
Anyway....I want to keep posting shortly after the last game is played......when I am available (I do have SOMEWHAT of a life). Sooooo....if you have a game that you feel should be "off the board," please make a post in my sides thread with the injury (or whatever) info.....and by the way, please feel free to post to the thread again if you care to.
Ok.....having thought about it, I'd like to address the injury thing. I feel like the 6-1 night with the injury game being the only loss was some sort of message.....and it probably is NOT good to ignore messages (even though women seem to ignore mine all the time).....and this was a very clear & blatent message !!
Sooo.....here is how it lays out. I get MAJOR advantage by using overnight lines whenever available and I really don't want to give that up. Usually injury games won't have overnight lines, but that isn't 100%. Some of the missing games are just because teams played late games the night before, etc. And some of the games that have lines also have newly injured players.
Anyway....I want to keep posting shortly after the last game is played......when I am available (I do have SOMEWHAT of a life). Sooooo....if you have a game that you feel should be "off the board," please make a post in my sides thread with the injury (or whatever) info.....and by the way, please feel free to post to the thread again if you care to.
Good to see this might work out. Tate and Zap have contributed tons to the forums, don't want to see that end. And by the same token I don't think Cash was trying to be one of those trolls who is here to start trouble, he seemed genuine in his thoughts. Because of that it's great if both sides can move beyond this.
Nice work yesterday Zap, nothing like a winning day to help get a gamblers head on straight.
Nice work yesterday Zap, nothing like a winning day to help get a gamblers head on straight.
I certainly want to move beyond it Pat......beating the books is hard enough without having to in-fight.......and ultimately I think some good will come of it.
I'm glad we took this straight to the Rubber Room ourselves and didn't pollute the NBA forum with very much of it. Maybe we are becoming institutionalized in this madhouse !!!
I'm glad we took this straight to the Rubber Room ourselves and didn't pollute the NBA forum with very much of it. Maybe we are becoming institutionalized in this madhouse !!!
Zap:No one and I mean no one wants to see you do well more than me, I have been a faithful follower of you and Tater at the windows for 2 seasons and have made nice earns doing it. I can certainly appreciate playing over night lines and the advantage of it. You had a great day yesterday 6-1, but had you taken that Denver play down because of Anthony being out you would have had a monster day, or at least reduce units played on those games, you have many followers who respect your efforts and selections and well they should, I just felt in fairness to them when game day arrives and a key player or players are out and you have a play on that game, this info should be noted and investor beware. When I started posting your plays faded yes I was busting your balls and I was wrong doing that and I apologize for that, no excuses no BS I was wrong! Thanks CASH
Last edited:
Cash.......
If you look at post #7 in this thread, you'll see that I not only agree with you about the injuries, but I'm inviting you to help point them out.
Still.....it is likely that games with big injuries may slip through as plays....and in that case it is up to the player to adjust (or omit) accordingly.
If you look at post #7 in this thread, you'll see that I not only agree with you about the injuries, but I'm inviting you to help point them out.
Still.....it is likely that games with big injuries may slip through as plays....and in that case it is up to the player to adjust (or omit) accordingly.
Im with you guys 100%,,,, I mentioned that I would Provide my QUITFACTOR% to all of ZAPS Games,,,, I have other win loss scenarios to halep screen out LOSERS,,,, Lets get em Guys,,,,
